18-09-2025, 09:09 PM
here Plato describes his vicious and masculine Athenian desire to stone faggots to death, and he says its God-willing to do so...
Quote:ATHENIAN: Upon reflection I see a way of imposing the law, which, in one respect, is easy, but, in another, is of the utmost
difficulty.MEGILLUS: What do you mean?ATHENIAN: We are all aware that most men, in spite of their lawless natures, are very strictly and precisely restrained fromintercourse with the fair, and this is not at all against their will, but entirely with their will.
MEGILLUS: When do you mean?ATHENIAN: When any one has a brother or sister who is fair; and about a son or daughter the same unwritten law holds, and
is a most perfect safeguard, so that no open or secret connection ever takes place between them. Nor does the thought of
such a thing ever enter at all into the minds of most of them.
MEGILLUS: Very true.ATHENIAN: Does not a little word extinguish all pleasures of that sort?
MEGILLUS: What word?ATHENIAN: The declaration that they are unholy, hated of God, and most infamous; and is not the reason of this that no one
has ever said the opposite, but every one from his earliest childhood has heard men speaking in the same manner about them
always and everywhere, whether in comedy or in the graver language of tragedy? When the poet introduces on the stage a
Thyestes or an Oedipus, or a Macareus having secret intercourse with his sister, he represents him, when found out, ready to
kill himself as the penalty of his sin.
MEGILLUS: You are very right in saying that tradition, if no breath of opposition ever assails it, has a marvellous power.ATHENIAN: Am I not also right in saying that the legislator who wants to master any of the passions which master man may
easily know how to subdue them? He will consecrate the tradition of their evil character among all, slaves and freemen,
women and children, throughout the city: that will be the surest foundation of the law which he can make.
MEGILLUS: Yes; but will he ever succeed in making all mankind use the same language about them?ATHENIAN: A good objection; but was I not just now saying that I had a way to make men use natural love and abstain fromunnatural, not intentionally destroying the seeds of human increase, or sowing them in stony places, in which they will take no
root; and that I would command them to abstain too from any female field of increase in which that which is sown is not likely
to grow? Now if a law to this effect could only be made perpetual, and gain an authority such as already prevents intercourse
of parents and children - such a law, extending to other sensual desires, and conquering them, would be the source of ten
thousand blessings. For, in the first place, moderation is the appointment of nature, and deters men from all frenzy and
madness of love, and from all adulteries and immoderate use of meats and drinks, and makes them good friends to their own
wives. And innumerable other benefits would result if such a law could only be enforced. I can imagine some lusty youth who
is standing by, and who, on hearing this enactment, declares in scurrilous terms that we are making foolish and impossible
laws, and fills the world with his outcry. And therefore I said that I knew a way of enacting and perpetuating such a law,
which was very easy in one respect, but in another most difficult. There is no difficulty in seeing that such a law is possible,
and in what way; for, as I was saying, the ordinance once consecrated would master the soul of every man, and terrify him
into obedience. But matters have now come to such a pass that even then the desired result seems as if it could not be
attained, just as the continuance of an entire state in the practice of common meals is also deemed impossible. And although
this latter is partly disproven by the fact of their existence among you, still even in your cities the common meals of women
would be regarded as unnatural and impossible. I was thinking of the rebelliousness of the human heart when I said that the
permanent establishment of these things is very difficult.
