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Why do people believe in "free-will"? - Printable Version+- Lookism (https://bookism.net)
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[Blue Pill]
Why do people believe in "free-will"? (/showthread.php?tid=808)Why do people believe in "free-will"? - Honest - 19-04-2022
I was thinking about this in the car and decided to write it (nothing better to do right now, and I'm high dopamine from lack of sleep and caffeine)
A large part of this problem seems to be due to a misunderstanding of terms (pointed out by Hume in his own enquiry into the question). I'm convinced that almost everyone who argues in favour of free-will has next to no idea what the term actually means. In fact, I'm also quite convinced that there is no real meaning to free-will, but rather that it is a fairy-word with absolutely zero substance - it quite literally does not make any sense. Anyone who really struggles with "the problem of free will" seems to be a lazy, slow, and close-minded thinker (that's not to say they can't improve).
i) What Does the Science™ Say?
In terms of the most popular stance taken by materialism/modern science, determinism is the clear winner. Quantum mechanics randomness is firmly inside the "determinist camp", as, in this context, it also implies an opposition to free-will.
ii) In Terms of Religion
Many free-will-believers are religious, and take a free-will stance due to a faulty belief that this is shared by their religion. This is not true.
In terms of religion, most are also staunchly deterministic, especially Christianity and Buddhism.
iii) In Terms of Religion - Divine Justice
I believe that many free-will-believers have a fear that a lack of free-will means a lack of accountability for one's actions, and therefore a lack of justice. However...
Because most religions function as a judgment of the quality of the soul/person, the fact that an individual could be punished for a "mistake" (due to his free-will), while in actuality is in possession of a good soul, reeks of inconsistency and injustice. Alternatively, if an individual cannot act any better or worse than the quality of his soul (therefore his actions are determined by his soul - ergo lacking in free-will) then any divine reward or punishment in response to a person's actions is a perfectly just response to the innate nature of the soul.
In terms of those spiritually inclined, determinism states the opposite to what is implied by the beliefs of the free-will-believers: our actions become representative of our concrete TRUE-WILL, rather than a floating, thin, ever-changing "free-will".
iv) Where does this concept of free-will come from?
Where does this free-will even come from? How does it work, mechanically speaking? These questions cannot be answered, I do not think, because it is an entirely fantastical concept stemming from knee-jerk reactionarism and ignorance.
v) Difficulty in Undestanding
The potential difficulty in understanding determinism and what a lack of free-will means is probably one of the largest stumbling blocks to people attempting to understand this problem. For example, the simple-minded may find it difficult to reconcile the fact that they can will their arms to move, as it is difficult to see the hidden chain of events leading to that moment.
vi) Alternative Definition?
Perhaps the free-will-believers (religious) believe that the soul, as the original source of its actions and containing a concrete and unchanging will, is therefore classified as an agent of free-will. However, this would also imply that its actions are pre-determined, and therefore the stated belief in "free-will" is redundant.
RE: Why do people believe in "free-will"? - progeny - 19-04-2022
yeah its obviously an illusion
RE: Why do people believe in "free-will"? - prince of shitskins - 19-04-2022
imagine assuming it's not a yes-no question!
read dennett
RE: Why do people believe in "free-will"? - Honest - 19-04-2022
(19-04-2022, 03:31 PM)Jоsh Wrote: imagine assuming it's not a yes-no question!
read dennett
I assumed it was a yes-no question, which is why my thread clearly stated that the concept of "free-will" is nonsensical (argued from rational, empirical, and moral standpoints)
Dennett has brain cancer.
RE: Why do people believe in "free-will"? - Blau - 19-04-2022
I have no free will.. everything I say has already been decided 😔
RE: Why do people believe in "free-will"? - An Infinity Of Little Hours - 19-04-2022
"Free will cannot exist when everything simply springs randomly from the darkness"
- Josh Cohen, Discord, 2017
RE: Why do people believe in "free-will"? - An Infinity Of Little Hours - 19-04-2022
Let's do a free will experiment...
Think of a movie.
Then another.
Then another.
How did you arrive at the movies you chose?
Why did you pick those three when you could have picked thousands of others?
It is either totally random sparks from your mind or totally pre-determined sparks... but none of it is free will
And that is a situation where you have unlimited choice, we are much more constrained in our day to day activities than just choosing a random movie
We have no free will.
Everyone is just in an infinite seizure of a life.
What you would have to believe for free will to exist would be ludicrous.
Love everyone. Freedom does not exist except in the solitude of our own hearts.
RE: Why do people believe in "free-will"? - Sassy Doll - 08-11-2024
Yeah that is one theory, that free will doesn't exist, however a competing theory has arisen.
The Tom Campbell theorem that Consciousness is more fundamental than the universe namely.
And he mentions that "free will is a REQUIREMENT for consciousness!"
RE: Why do people believe in "free-will"? - Altruist - 08-11-2024
(19-04-2022, 03:31 PM)prince of shitskins Wrote: imagine assuming it's not a yes-no question!
ding ding
both possible answers are incredibly stupid and simplistic
RE: Why do people believe in "free-will"? - towncel - 29-08-2025
OP exclusively reads garbage that agrees with him then imagines himself as smart for treating determinism as automatically true, literally due to, as he says above, mainstream sources AKA an appeal to authority fallacy.
RE: Why do people believe in "free-will"? - ΛΟΓΟΣ - 31-08-2025
insane cope